I've decided to start a new theme day on Tuesdays- Let's Talk Tuesdays. Ok, I know it is Monday, but I couldn't think of a cute name for Mondays so this one is a day early. Every Tuesday I'll come up with a topic that causes us to think a little bit harder than we normally do. Please feel free to post honestly and openly.
Let's talk about who we think is going to heaven. I encourage anonymous replies - or not- whichever you prefer.
I have always wondered who was going to get into heaven. I rememeber as a little girl asking my grandmother what I had to do to get there. I wanted a checklist. I grew up in a pretty strict church and from what I learned on Sunday mornings, the list of people getting into heaven was going to be short. I didn't want to take any chances- where was my list? Looking back, the sad part about her answer was that she started to list off things. She didn't mention Jesus' sacrifice. She didn't mention grace. She didn't mention that no matter how good I was, I myself could never do enough to get into heaven by myself. Now, I am not saying we can behave as we like and expect grace to save us, but it wasn't until I went off to college and attended a church there that I learned of those things.
Some people think that all 'good' people will get into heaven- whether they believe in God or not. Some people think only those that attend the same flavor of church that they attend will be there.
But didn't God send his only begotten son to save the world? Not just people who ____________ (Fill in the blank) And what does that mean? To save the world. Could it mean everyone gets to go to heaven? Can we really put a limit on the power of God's grace?
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I'm fairly agnostic when it comes to the the existence of heaven/hell/afterlife in general but I do think one can make a good case for Christian Universalism.
I can't really handle the idea that our eternal fate is based on whether or not we believe certain historical propositions. Basing the determination on how good we are sounds a little better but it runs head on into the idea of grace. One may go the predestination route and just let God choose who God chooses. All these run up against basic axioms for myself, mainly that God exists, is good, and when I say good I know what I mean by good.
That in the end God's grace wins out for all creation is a hope that I would rather live by.
The idea of heaven hasn't really ever bothered me as much as the idea of hell. I hope heaven is real, and I trust that God is good, and that Christ died for the whole world. So, I hope that if heaven is real we are all perfected by being there.
I don't think I believe that hell is real. I like this episode of This American Life a lot, and the story it tells of a minister whose concept of heaven and hell and God went through a major transformationhttp://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?episode=304
I can identify with him a lot.
I've always felt comforted by this part in Romans 2, too. The idea that God knows our heart even if we don't know God.
"12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares."
I run into problems both ways, honestly... by which I mean, with the 'only those that have got it all right will be there' and 'all people will be there because if God is really Love he can't condemn people'. I have more questions than answers, though... What of Jesus's insistence that the way is through him alone... are we to think that through him ALL will be saved whether you believe in Him or not, pray to the devil, etc? Though I'm colossally dependent on grace and believe there's more of it than less, I confess can't really get behind that idea, and the Bible seems to give us an impression of the way being narrower than that...
and what is 'Hell' going to be??
I struggle with this topic, and I'm really glad it's not my responsibility to judge such things. A friend of mine and I used to debate it fairly frequently and I think it's important to keep doing that... I maintain that my calling myself a Christian hinges on my faith in Christ, not a set of moral and ethical questions and behaviors, and that my hopes of the afterlife are entirely dependent on His sacrifice, which I'm satisfied is a historical fact. That reality is why I call myself a Jesus-follower and makes me want to live my life a different way.
But for those that don't believe in Christ or don't care? I don't know. I know a lot of great people, though, in hope for them and myself I'd rather attribute more mercy to the Lord than judgement. But then I don't know if God's more concerned with our very nice and well-intentioned humanity than His holiness and desire to be... well, our God... does that make sense?
as a point of interest, I like to hold both predestination and freewill in view and try to mull the implications of each, as I think the Bible speaks to both concepts.
I reread your post again and wanted to throw something else in... who is really 'good' and who decides that? what ruler do we use to determine goodness, and is it the same as God's? I don't ask this to be snarky at all... and I don't think the above questions change one thing about how we treat and love others.
I believe that Hell is real...goodness knows the Bible talks about it enough! :) Jesus talks about us needing to do the Will of the Father...I think the challenge for most of us ( I know it is for me ) is figuring out what His Will is...and then having the courage to follow it. As for those that do not believe in Christ because they have never heard of Him...if His law is written on their hearts I believe they will be saved.
Speaking of hell; most of the talk about hell in the Bible comes from Jesus, generally involve Jesus exhorting people to be good and avoid sin in order to avoid hell, and usually is attached to statements of Jesus that we take figuratively (but we like to suddenly get literal with the hell part of the statement).
I was Episcopal before marrying into the C of C...they defined sin simply as seeking our own will instead of that of God and I have heard many people describe Hell as having the absolute knowledge of God and the peace He can offer...but being eternally separated from Him. Hell is definitely an interesting topic whether you believe it is a state of being or an actual location.
I was taught to do good, then you will be rewarded. I learned it at an early age. Then, as I grew into an adult, those lessons manifested themselves in some pretty demented ways. There are times when I, too, still long for a checklist of stuff to do so as to become secure in salvation. The bottom line is that I have no control over such things, and this is when my faith and His grace walk hand-in-hand.
We constantly seek to understand divine things through human concepts. It might just be a fancy way to say "I don't know," but there are things at work within us through Him. As for heaven/hell...I've heard hell explained as "apart from the presence of God." However, I have never really questioned it's exsistence. Maybe that is a question worth asking. How could a loving God send someone to hell?
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